Introduction 0:03
Welcome to the Elevate Your Equity podcast where we, as married busy professionals, leverage real estate investing to unlock the three plus one degrees of freedom, health, location, time and financial.

Derek Clifford 0:16
Today, we’ve got Mr. Chad Swinford on the call. Chad is a family focused veteran real estate investor who started over 20 years ago with a couple of rentals. And he’s used real estate right now and to become completely debt free personally travel the world and become an everyday multi millionaire. And he’s recently began moving from his single family world to small multifamily properties, and now finally into larger multifamily properties. And I’m so excited to be able to share this journey with you because man, this is like bread and butter stuff this happens. This is the vision that most investors have when they’re starting out. And the natural progression that most people follow. So I cannot wait to dig in. But anyway, Chad, how are you today, man?

Chad Swinford 1:01
All right, man. Thanks for the great intro. And I’m stoked to be here.

Derek Clifford 1:06
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for making it on the show. We’re gonna have some real fun here today. So let’s start how we normally start with all of our guests, which is, tell us how you got started in real estate investing. It was 20 years ago. But you know, where did that spark come from? What What made you say, oh, you know, real estate is something I got to get into.

Chad Swinford 1:25
Yeah, it was actually much longer than that. So I was a teenager, and my best friend who I spent all my time with his dad worked on the railroad, his dad got injured on the job and got a big settlement from the railroad. With that cash, he turned around and start started buying houses. So I’m 16 at the time, and I would go show up at the houses that he was working on and just work for him. Right. He wasn’t paying me I was just showing up working. It was something that interested me. And Secretly, I was hoping that he was going to bring me in on one of the deals as a partner or something right. But that didn’t happen. But when I was 19, I bought my first live in flip. And then he turned around and reciprocated that favor and came and he helped me do that renovation. So just over the course of three years, I learned so much from him. And that’s where my passion from this started. And so by the time I was 19, I owned my first house, I think I bought my second one at 2223 and never stopped. It was you know, a series of live in flips, and then started buying rentals, purposely buying rentals, I think in 2003.

Derek Clifford 2:41
Very cool. And just so that the audience knows where you’re located. You are out in the Midwest, correct? Right? Yeah, I’m in the Indianapolis area. Awesome. Yeah, perfect. And that’s, that’s one of the main reasons why we just got attracted to each other like magnets is that is the common thread and investing in Indy. But ya know, so what coming back from that experience, right? You You were 16 and you started investing there, it looks like there was a gap of time between 19 and 2223. Where you were maybe were you studying the business? Or were you working on something else? Before you took action? Or was that seed planted so deeply back then that you just knew you were going to do it?

Chad Swinford 3:22
Well, I always knew that that’s the I wanted to do it. You know, obviously I’m cash strapped at that age. And, you know, I was working. And yeah, there was there’s we’re live in flips, right? So there was a there was a larger gap between each one. And I wasn’t as purposeful. Maybe I didn’t invest myself professionally as much as I could have when I was 19. But I think I did pretty good. So yeah, there were probably two or three year gaps in between each of the first few.

Derek Clifford 3:54
That makes sense. Okay, cool. So what about when you were investing over the years, right? And it’s because it’s been a very long career, and it’s been more of a side hustle for quite a long time until recently. Can you tell me what was that common thread that just excited you about real estate investing from the beginning that you still maybe have today if there is one if there’s a thread

Chad Swinford 4:19
I love to be hands on, right? So early on, and one of the pivotal moments of my I guess my investment career was when I actually removed myself from the Labor part of it, but I really enjoyed that for a long time. Right. That’s how I started in it. I enjoyed the house I enjoyed the process. But the labor part of it was something that I needed to withdraw myself from in order to scale.

Derek Clifford 4:45
That makes a lot of sense because I think when you’re in that frame of mind at the very beginning, you want to do everything yourself right and I’m sure we’re gonna get to a point where eventually that my that mindset starts to become a little bit more. You know, you start you start to Think about it from a different angle. So, you know, if you if you had to look back when you first started, and when you were starting to ramp up, maybe you have like a couple properties under your belt and you’re starting to realize this is going to be a real business, not just you know, something you do one time and move on. Can you talk about like, what you what your personal life was like, like you were working a job, you had this real estate stuff, you had family? Most likely? So what what did your day look like? And over the years, how did that shift?

Chad Swinford 5:30
Yeah. So early on, you know, I didn’t really fully answer your question before, you know, I had always known. You even I remember sitting in high school counselor’s offices, as they’re asking me what I want to do with my life when I’m 17 years old, and I have no clue. And I just remember telling them, I just want to work for myself, I don’t want to work for anyone else. But the irony of it was that I spent a long time working for other people, right? In a professional career. And I went, I ended up going to school. So I’m, I’m juggling school, and I’m juggling a family and a career, as it turns out, and you know, and then trying to do these, these flips, right? I’m not I would, I didn’t really consider myself a real estate investor at that time. Maybe now I would consider my my previous self a real estate investor. But that’s not how I thought, right? So, you know, during those years, it was it was a struggle, but it wouldn’t in your 20s. I mean, man, you’ve got nothing but time. Right, and I worked, I’m working my tail off, you know, so I put in 40 hours a week on the school, on the side, and you had a family, and I’m working on a house at the same time, right? Because I know, you know, in order to, for me to really fully take advantage of these capital gains that I’m going to do I want to be done with this with this house, or whatever project I was working on at that two year period. So I could then turn around and do it again.

Derek Clifford 7:04
Yeah, I love that. So you know, most people who start out investing in real estate, like they, they have illusions of what it is, or they’re they think they know what it’s like to be a real estate investor and to be a buy and hold investor, which I assume that you are, maybe you’ve done some flips here and there. But for the most part, I assume most of our guests we buy and hold investors, ones who buy intelligently, you know, apply capital and then use, you know, rent it out, basically rent out the apartment and use that cash flow and pick to pick your timing to sell and do 1030 ones and all this really cool stuff. Right? So you know, coming from that perspective, buying and holding is takes a lot of effort. And there’s a lot of ups and downs. And so throughout your process, maybe can you give us a story of, you know, when you were first starting out that maybe tested you quite a bit? Or if there if there is one, you know, that you can remember?

Chad Swinford 7:58
Yeah, for a long time, you’re talking about buy and hold. Right. So, you know, I was I was burning properties before burning was the thing, right? Yeah. And I didn’t realize what I was doing, I guess, but you know, the numbers really work. And, you know, early in my career, I didn’t have a lot of capital to work with. So, you know, I did have a professional career. So I had a fort, I had a 401k that I was investing in. So I would borrow against that, I would show that, you know, in order to get loans in order to show that I could buy a $25,000 house, and then I would turn around and borrow money from something or, you know, just I just need to get close, right? And then those first couple houses, you know, I’m I’m turning over credit cards and just trying to do whatever I can to get to the end of that project. So that that six month period, I could turn around and get all my money back out of it. And that was really difficult. I mean, if I if I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, there would have been all the reasons in the world to give up. Yeah, because it’s just a really, it’s hard struggle. It’s really struggle. You know, I struggled a lot with that. Still doing a lot of the work myself ironing out some trades, but, you know, largely doing it myself working very late and burning the candle on both ends. But that’s really what I needed to do at the time. That was that was what I needed to do. Right. And that doesn’t play out in everyone’s story, but it did for mine and I’m so happy that I did. You know, it really allowed me to learn the business from the ground up, right. So and as I was early in my career, I’m buying. I’m buying rentals, and I’m managing those myself now. So now, also property manager, and there’s a lot of hangups that come with that there’s a lot of struggle that comes with that, you know, you know learning to learning to not be I have everything that you’re told, you know, by tenants, and maybe I didn’t do so well at that. But we can talk more about that in a few minutes. But there was a point where I was ready to sell it all and do something else.

Derek Clifford 10:14
What do you remember a specific point in time, I know that you know, doing birds and everything is very, very romantic, right? Being able to tell everyone Oh, hey, you know, you find a property that’s got equity in it, you know, you put some money into rehab it and then you place tenants in there, so that you can get your cash flow, and then you pull out all your cash, right? And it’s, but But when people fail to realize that there’s a lot of steps, you know, you have to buy, right, that’s the first thing you have to rehab correctly, assuming that there is no unknown variables, or you’ve built in a budget that accounts for variables, right and a contingency, well, then it has to appraise. And at the same time, you also have to have a tenant in there that’s going to cover your mortgage, and more. And, you know, before this was popular, it was a lot easier, I imagine back in the day for, you know, looking back at the numbers and what you were able to find from that standpoint. But what about that Brian doing burrs? And what about that? Like, what one specific time? You know, do you remember saying, Oh, my gosh, like, I don’t know, if I could do this, what was your what was a really low point.

Chad Swinford 11:19
There was one, it was just a big project. And I think I bought the house for 27,000. And, you know, that’s one thing I love about the Midwest, that’s changing now, but we really were, we could really pick up some some nice properties for cheap, and no one would have called this a nice property, but it is now 7000, you know, I bought that property. And it was, we knocked half the house down and rebuilt, it took a lot of cash, it was for me at the time, and it was a 40 $45,000 renovation, you know, so then I’ve got, you know, 70 to 74 or $5,000 into it. But I’m working full time and a professional career. And, you know, my employer recognizes that I’m coming in and, you know, I’ve got red eyes, and I’m not the same and, you know, but this was something that I really personally wanted, you know, very desired this very much to, to do this to to be involved in real estate, and it was a six month project, which is why you can’t do your own work, because it just takes a long time. And yeah, so it was personally, you know, it was a lot of pressure on me, because I’m trying to juggle the finances of it all. I’ve got to make it all work. I know what the goal is, I know I bought it right. I know that I’m doing the right renovations, because at this point, I’d been doing it for a long time. I’ve been around it for a long time. And it was just getting to the finish line. That was the hard part. You know, and sticking to it, sticking to what I know, you know, there was there was no five easy steps. And there was no, you know, gurus online telling me, you know, the steps I need to take it was discovery all of my own and, and it was hard, you know, if get times could have felt felt very lonely, because there was no one else I knew did. You know, my wife would show up, and she would work with me as occasionally as well. And, and then, you know, professionally, I didn’t want to lose my I didn’t want to lose my job at that time. years later. I did want to lose it. But yeah, you know, I’m just trying to juggle it all so that that particular project really stretched me thin and almost to the breaking point.

Derek Clifford 13:46
Yeah, well, I’m glad that you stuck with it. Because that was kind of like your path or kind of like the dues that you had put in at that point to be able to get you to where you are right now. Now, real quick, I want to take a quick detour, because you mentioned your wife in here. And I want to ask you this later on, but since it’s here, we’ll do it now. How involved was your wife in all of this? And how was the process of bringing your family into the loop? And Were they supportive? Did they understand what you’re trying to do? Like what was that conversation like at home when you went you know, when you came home, and probably in a bad mood from you know, or or maybe you have caulk all over your hands or something like that and you’re trying to you’re trying to justify or you’re bleeding or something because you hit yourself with a hammer something like that. You know, how did that all that go down when you’re when you went home and tried to explain all this to your family?

Chad Swinford 14:37
Yeah, I mean, it’s so it was a young family at the time, right? So kids are little. The wife, my wife is just super supportive. She’ll show up and she’ll put in sweat equity, but you know, she she stays home, her primary. You know, her primary responsibility is the kids and she sticks to that Um, and she is so, so supportive, right? I mean, she treats me like a rock star, she knows that whatever endeavor I’m going to undertake, you know, I’ve got a, a really high degree of success. And so just really super supportive family thought I was crazy, you know, they would come by and really question what I was doing, that I’m that I would have bought this, you know, going back to the property we’re talking about before. You know, they would show up, and you could just see it in their face, you know, they want to be supportive, but they’re asking, and, you know, their eyes are asking why, why would you do this? And I mean, that house, you know, $70,000 in 75, maybe, that I still own that house today. Yeah, I get it. $1,400 a month. Every finance did a couple times. I’ve cashed out big time a couple times, you know, it’s worth 220 $230,000. So I knew what I was doing. But it wasn’t easy. Right? I knew that it would eventually work out. And and it did. But yeah, I mean, just having that support at home was was big for me, because I’m not sure. That particular project, I’m not sure that I would have taken on another one after that. You know, I haven’t had my wife not been fully supportive of me.

Derek Clifford 16:30
Yeah, absolutely. And I think having a spouse on board, even, even if they’re not actively involved in your business, but supportive, they’ll help with sacrifices, like, for instance, I’ve seen a lot of cases Chad, where you have investors who want to leave their job or go full time, and their spouse is either part time or don’t work. And I’ve seen the most successful couples come together and be like, Okay, if we really want to make this happen for our 510 15 year vision, or even a three year vision, then one of us has to work to continue to put food on the table. So that it frees up time for the other person to do it. Right. Or they both end up working full time. And then you know, there’s just a sacrifice there that, you know, you’re working together, there’s like a, there’s an active involvement. And there’s a passive involvement where your family can help you create the time, the physical, the mental space for you to pursue what you want to do in for good of the whole family. Right. And I think that that spousal support is so good, because I’ll be honest, without the support of my wife, I wouldn’t have anything that I have today, because she’s the visionary, I’m more of an integrator, if you’ve read traction, and some of those other books about, you know, those roles between integrator and visionary. My wife is very much asking the why questions, I asked the how questions. And, you know, without her and asking these questions, I would never have the courage to leave my job and start to dare, you know, and ask the bigger questions. So, I think that, you know, even though your wife may or may not want to be actively involved, I think it’s huge that they are a part of the business in some way, shape, or form. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I’m glad that that also seems to be working out in your guys’s favorite too. So that’s a good thing. Now, what I wanted to do too, is I wanted to talk about your journey from going to the single families, you know, the burrs, then going to small multifamily, and then larger multifamily. Maybe you can walk us through that experience and, you know, telling us, You know what, you’ve at what point you’ve transitioned, like, did you get to 10 single families before going to multifamily? And then from small multifamily going to big want to hear a little bit more about those transition points, if you can.

Chad Swinford 18:44
Yeah, sure. It was probably around that 10 point where I had, you know, somewhere around there. Single family homes and kind of going back to what I had said earlier about me wanting to sell everything that that was the that was the point where I bought bought my first small multifamily. I was ready to get out. I was managing my own properties, you know, I, I had thought about having, you know, I had thought about going to a property manager and just handing everything over to them. But, you know, I was just really over it. That part of being a real estate investor just did not appeal to me anymore. The interruption to life the you know, the having to decide someone’s fate. Or, or are they being honest with me or not right? And I just was like, told my wife and like that, that’s it. I’m just done, I want to start selling them. And I removed a tenant, I started I started to flip one of my rentals and and put it on the market and then and then I ended up at a sheriff sale. bought another property and she’s like, What are you doing? Yeah, and I’m like, Well, it’s a done Oh, and I didn’t I didn’t know I mean, you double. So at that time, it was a double. I picked it up for 47,000. And I knew I could probably get away between 15 and $20,000 renovation and I did it was like 18 or $19,000. And I’m like, Look, there’s so much cash flow here, I’m just going to give this to a property manager. Right. So I call the local property manager, it’s a small town, you know, where like Office and call the local property manager, and she crushed it right out of the gate. And I’m like, wow, you know, at that point, everything changed for me. And so I started handing her more properties, right as it as they made sense of the timing made sense. And then, before I knew it, six, nine months, she had everything, and, but not only did I, you know, kind of discover the beauty of the beauty of having someone else manage my properties, but the cash flow is so tremendous. From that double, it was more than anything I could ever imagine, from a single family, right, and I’m spreading my risk out over those two different units, right. So when I’ve got a single family, and they move out, I’m carrying that until I can backfill it. Well, obviously, with a double or, you know, a triple or quad, they, the other tenants are carrying that unit, right. So I’m spreading that risk out. And I liked that. And so just really strong, it was a strong purchase, it was a nice building, but it really opened my eyes up. So then it wasn’t a few months later, maybe probably two or three months later, I picked up another double off MLS. Another really good experience, you know, I paid market price for it. But my rent rents still rents are high, you know, in my area, purchase prices, property values, were still pretty low at that time. So the spread was nice, really good strong cash flow, I did have to go in with 20% down on that just because of the way I bought it. So I left some money in it. And I’ve since I’ve refinanced that into a large portfolio, and I got my money back. But But yeah, so that was really the turning point for me with with the small multifamily and realizing the power behind them. Right, I think you’re kind of capped at the type of tenant you can put in them. Yeah, but that you’re you’re really kind of depending on the class of single family that you’re buying. But you’re you’re you’re geared towards a different type of tenant with a with a small multifamily, but you can still get really strong tenants with good strong work history. And, you know, just really turned out to be a great investment. One thing that I, I don’t care for them about about them as much is that they tend to, at least in my area, they tend to not appreciate as much, right, because there’s very few of them. So there’s very few comps. And so when they do so they don’t have much to compare it to they don’t they don’t appreciate like that single family property would. So the game is a little bit different with that, right. So you’ve got to have that strong cash flow for it to make sense. Because you’re not leveraging increased property value.

Derek Clifford 23:25
That’s right. And you also have, as your view, your exit strategy for who’s going to buy your property on exit is another investor. And usually investors are looking for good deals. So they’re not going to be you know, that’s just the way the market is unless you are lucky enough to find a homeowner who wants to do a little bit of house hacking type of situation. Even then they know what they’re doing. They’ve studied up and they know their numbers. And so if they know their numbers, they’re going to look for a good deal, which means that’s it’s it’s a different situation, when you have a single family home, where you’ve got like, you know, retail type, you know, homeowners that don’t know all of this type of thing. And so people who are investing in those markets, they know that they may be able to sell to someone like that in the future. So they price in some of that exuberance in the single family home pricing, at least that’s what I’ve been finding in the in, you know, in Indianapolis to be true. What I wanted to ask you next was what about the transition from the small multifamily into larger multifamily? Because, you know, I know that eventually you get to a point where you’re out, you kind of run out of cash, right? Or, you know, you’re working with your partners, and one of your partners runs out of cash and now things kind of like you have to start thinking differently. So can you talk to us a little bit about that transition from smaller multifamily to commercial?

Chad Swinford 24:45
Yeah, so there’s a lot that happened in between for me and my career and backup just a little bit. And I’d spent 20 years in a professional career 15 years with one company and a professional career and at the beginning COVID That changed for me, and I think it was May 1 was my last day, they moved my job overseas, it was actually not COVID related, but they moved my job overseas. And so, you know, I’m kind of left with a decision, right. And the nice thing about it was they were handing out money like candy that year. So I was like, well, this really helps, you know, kind of get me off the ground. But, you know, at that time, I’d also met my first my partner. And, and that was another thing that really kind of changed things for me, but because, you know, as I was always really just a lone wolf, right. At that point, I didn’t really even have anybody in my life that was a real estate investor, I didn’t have any friends that that were I had invited to talk to about this. And, and I met him at church. And I’d heard there was a family. You know, one of my other friends said, Hey, this family came, came to church, and they, you know, they flip houses, I think, is because they think everybody that’s in the real estate investor flips houses, and they can Yeah, they say they flip houses. And so of course, I introduced myself and we made fast friends, right. And so we just, we talked more, we had a lot of the same values, we had a lot saying, you know, family choices, and we just aligned very well, right. Also a veteran, real estate investor, and we’re like, hey, you know, maybe we should do something together, not neither one of us really had taken on any kind of kind of partnership. Although, I know, I had, I believe he had also desired that right. And just had never really presented itself. So, you know, this was at the time where I was trying to determine, you know, what I wanted to do, I just lost my, I just lost this long career that I’d had, which I wasn’t really that tore up about, I had been building a real estate portfolio, which was, you know, delivering me some pretty nice cash flow already. So I really kind of felt like it was time to, you know, punch it, if you will. And it wasn’t out there. Two months later, he makes a phone call to a property owner of a 21 unit in Plainfield, which is a suburb of Indianapolis. And the guy’s like, Yeah, I think I I’d be interested in selling, you know, take a look. Right? So it was really that point where you things really be kind of open up to us, you know, and you just try why fire when it when it’s something like that, right, and you kind of learn on the go. I think probably each of these larger multifamily purchases, each property probably presents its own challenges, each one of them is different. This particular property had not been cared for at all. And wasn’t it was a good structure was good, right? The units were not the tenants were, this was in a nice in a nice area, and really nice suburb of Indianapolis, this was, you know, probably a D class at the time, because of seven, because of the tenants that were in it. That’s what you look for, right? When you walk in those units, it smells like money, you know.

Derek Clifford 28:30
In air quotes, money, you know, yeah.

Chad Swinford 28:33
And so we knew that it was going to be a huge undertaking, right. I mean, this was not something of the scale that neither he or I had ever done. Each individual unit, you know, there was nothing new to that. But now we have 21 of them to do, and we have to turn them all over. So it’s a little bit overwhelming the thought of it, but trust in myself, and you know, and and so we went for it. And we, we each put 10% in, right, so and then we also so we went with a bank loan, and still at 20 bank loan interest only. And then we also have a two or a $200,000, private private loan from another investor come in, which was the first time I’d ever taken any private money, which kind of opened things up for me as well. And we had a $250,000 scope of work that we had to do, right. And our scope of work was a $250,000 budget. And we just actually came full full cycle on that. Last month we closed the Freddie Mac SBL and the refinance love Yeah, yeah. And so that turned out nice. There were some Lessons Learned. And we can get into that if you’d like. But that was kind of that transition, right? It was, it was one that was oh, it was just the timing was perfect, right, a brand new partnership. And, you know, we never turned back. And we actually ended up because we had a construction loan from the same bank that we got, that we bought the building through. So we took the 200,000 that we got from the private investor, and we went and bought 11 more units, and nd with that money at the same time. And so that turned out nice as well. And then we’re getting ready to refinance that property. We’re actually in the process of refinancing.

Derek Clifford 30:41
Very cool. This is great, man, I love this. This is very, very hands on I really love the story about like how people, I mean, people can visually see themselves walking in your footsteps doing something like this, because it’s very, like it’s a, it’s explained well, in a way where people can say, Yeah, you know, I could see myself eventually going that way that way, but I love the I just love how it all kind of just fell into place. Because you guys are ready, you both had done your work, like you met in a in a church, which is a lot better than meeting at a bar and finding your partner at a bar, right, which is really, really good thing. And that’s like kind of like the level that you just have to go with. And that’s the way this business works. Sometimes Sometimes things fall into your lap, and you just kind of have to run with it. And that’s the way that it is. That’s why it’s so exciting and, and why why I love this business. But what I wanted to do, because you know, we only have a few minutes left, I want to make sure that we hit some of the important things, you mentioned that you have a skill of intuition. And you’re able to use your years of experience to just kind of feel your way through situations. Can you talk to us a little bit about a what that’s done for you and be how you develop that? You know, maybe maybe we can talk about that to see if there’s anything that the listeners can take away from your, your knowledge in this area.

Chad Swinford 32:02
Yeah, you know, I think we just haven’t developed that over time, right? practicing it. I look at a lot of properties. And I always have, I’ve never been afraid to ask to go look at a property I will run an agent ragged, just just going through, and then I’ll follow up or if I don’t buy a property, I will follow up on it. If I know who bought it I because a lot of the work I do is in smaller towns. And you know, I will follow up on all stop in and see how they’re doing if I didn’t buy it myself, right. So I’ve been just been doing that for years interested in the process. I’m inquisitive, maybe nosy? I don’t know what you want to call it. But I’m just interested in real estate. Right. So it was just want to see something from start to finish. And so any more than anything, I think it’s just been practice, right? It hasn’t always been that way. I’ve made my fair share of mistakes. No huge ones, thankfully. And, you know, so just over time, just kind of built that, that that tool set for myself and what that does for me, I think more than anything, it guards me. Right. So um, I don’t take high, I don’t take high level risks. You know, I have to have a certain comfort level at a property before Greenlight it there, you know, I probably I probably won’t buy every deal that I should it just because there may be some unknowns, or there’s just something about it doesn’t feel right to me. So and I think one thing that does for me is it saves me a lot of time. You know, I mean, I can walk in and out of a property. And I just went and walks as an example. There’s a local realtor, and I think we might we might talk about this in a few minutes, but there’s a local real estate investor that he’s been selling me some homes recently and we went walked through a few of them a couple of weeks ago or been a few weeks ago, probably. And we’d walk in and I you know, he’d stay in a living room and chit chat with a tenant and I’m in there for two minutes maybe and I’m walking out of the building. And he’s you know, he’s like, what’s going on? I’m gonna look at it. Like I looked at everything I need to see you know, give it a walk around outside walk around inside and that was it. Right so since that I own those buildings now and and I was you know from what I’ve seen so far I was right on the money and so where they think saves me time saves me a lot of frustration saves me a lot of money, I think as well just kind of leveraging that. It’s not some kind of superpower that I was born with or kind of some freak accident that happened right it was it was just practice.

Derek Clifford 35:00
But that’s what’s inspiring, inspiring about it is that it was something that you developed over a long period of time, which is something that others can also learn how to do. What was there anything else that maybe you took from your full time job that really helped you in the real estate business? You know, things that you did for your your W two?

Chad Swinford 35:19
Yeah, sure. So my career, I was a business analyst. So I was in process improvement, ongoing improvement. So I’ll you know, have that, the eyes for that, as well. So from a business perspective, and a practical perspective, I look at things maybe a little bit differently than others do. And allows me to see foresee problems, look at this, the entire scope of a project rather than kind of maybe just what’s in front of my eyes. And I think that really helps out, you know, I’m very organized. And that came from my career as well. And so that helps me, it saves me a lot of time. It saves me a lot of frustration, as I work through refinances with banks, tax situations, and that’s something that I just really strive to be really well organized. So that that helps as well, as well as just being good with numbers. So, yeah, just basic math, that we’re talking about just understanding, you know, how what those equations are and what they mean.

Derek Clifford 36:24
For sure. And I think that for those who are out there that maybe have this type of skill. And guess what, you know, you may find someone like Chad’s partner, that I’m not saying that he’s bad with numbers or anything like that. But you know, someone who complements you, right and together as a force, like maybe they’re really good at talking with people, and you’re good at spreadsheets and numbers and have an interest in real estate investing. There’s something that you can do there, but with overlapping talents and skills. So it’ll help you in your own portfolio, if you think a little bit bigger and say, Okay, what am I doing in my w two that I could consider myself world class at, and find a way to be able to leverage that inside of your business, because even if you know, if you do something really well, your business is going to kind of morph around that, right? The properties that you buy will be based on what you feel or what your talent is. Maybe you’re really good at working with people. So you find the right people or find some people who can help find properties for you. There’s a whole lot of ways to spin this. And so I love your approach of like using that as one of the things that help build a keystone or a cornerstone for your business, right, those skills that you learned, yes, yeah, which is, which is really good. So I hope that it’s inspiring the listeners as well to think about what that is that you have. And then like Chad was saying about the intuition, it takes time to build something like that. But the skills will start layering on top of itself. And then eventually you’ll be attracted, or more attractive to potential partners out there who want to work for you work with you, for your personality, your skills, and just your experience in general. And so you just got to start somewhere. And, you know, Chad’s been doing it for a really long time. And he’s retired himself from his job, and he’s got all these kids at home, and now he’s in full control of his future. So that’s really, really awesome. So I guess in closing here, I wanted to ask you one last question. Working in this business for 20 years, there’s no doubt that persistence has played a huge factor in your success level right now. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of that? Or how it’s played a role for you? Or have you even noticed it at all, like persistence? Has discipline even come into the picture over these last 20 years? Or is it more like, you just felt connected to the space and you never really had to put discipline in to do the work?

Chad Swinford 38:47
Yeah, not necessarily. No, I’m naturally a hard worker. And I think that has a lot to do with it for me. And so it wasn’t really something that I had to strive to be disciplined. You know, I knew what I wanted. I knew I wanted to, you know, build a portfolio real estate portfolio, that we have goals, we have personal goals that, you know, we have set forth, and this was a big part of that, right. So I wanted to retire by a certain age, I wanted to be self insured by a certain age, I bought a insurance policy, that a term policy that expires in a particular day, I told my wife years ago, by the time that expires will be self insured. Right? So what’s that mean? That means I’ve got no debt. And my cash flow from my real estate portfolio will cover anything and everything in our life. And if I if I’m gone, you’ll be set. Right? You can sell them off or you can continue just to cash flow from them. So yeah, you know, and so just knowing, you know, kind of what I want in life and then just being, you know, yes, I was persistent, for sure. Without that I wouldn’t be where I’m at. But it wasn’t something I had to exercise. I was convinced myself to do we just for me, it just came naturally.

Derek Clifford 40:03
Yeah, it’s something that you’ve done over the years you’ve built into your personality. And that’s why the most successful people get that skill, right? So for the listeners out there that know that maybe you’re weak in this area, I highly recommend starting to look to explore some of this by setting up a routine or setting something up in your daily schedule, or, you know, as an accountability partner, there’s a lot of ways to go about it. But the common theme that I’ve noticed across people that are the most successful in anything they do, including real estate investing, Chad is the discipline or the ability to be to persist through problems. And you know, you said it yourself, you almost threw up your hands after doing that one bird that was really like, it was really tested you you had almost 100k into this thing, and you’re working a full time job. He had kids at home. And I completely understand that. And it’s not all sunshine and roses. But if you can persist through man real estate is going to treat you really well.

Chad Swinford 40:58
It does. It’s not a get rich, quick thing, right? I mean, if you’re a get rich slowly. But there’s I personally feel like there’s nothing there’s no other investment that will treat you better. If given it time and teach continue to water it. Absolutely.

Derek Clifford 41:13
And even today, like we’re recording this now, right on the brink of q4 of 2022. So right now, there’s a lot of uncertainty in interest rates and everything. But man, I would still argue that people still need a place to live. And we have more people than we know what to do with on the planet. And the US is one of the best places to live. So I just, you know, yeah, interest rates are maybe going to climb for the near term. But man like I don’t have a crystal ball. But man real estate can treat you really well. If you buy right. You do you follow the advice of others partner with smart people. And you’ll get there?

Chad Swinford 41:46
For sure. Yeah, I mean, this is a pretty unsettling time for a lot of people. And I get a lot of questions from family members right now there that are talking about that kind of that risk of buying right now. And you’re not going to be buying now or anything like that. These are the times we look forward to actually but I, I closed on two more properties. Last week, I close on another one this Thursday, um, I’m not going to slow down. You know, just know what you’re buying, and know what you’re paying for it and know what it’s going to be worth in five or 10 years.

Derek Clifford 42:20
And yeah, you know what it is Chad, I personally think that a lot of folks who are doing this, they commoditize houses like stock, they’re like, you’re not going to you’re not going to buy like it’s we’re at the peak of the market right now. And let’s like, Yeah, that’s true. But we have a five to, you know, five to seven year plan to hold this property. And whatever is going to happen, like we locking in our interest rates now or we buy a cap so that the variable rates can only go so high. And we have a property right now, where the in place rents are 200 or $300 per door cheaper than what it should be. That’s immediate equity, obviously, you have to work for it. But unless something really wrong happens, and we have like a backpedal of like a negative growth of rents, which no one is forecasting. All you got to really do is implement your business plan, do what you need to do to get the rents up to that level, whether it’s a turn or rehab, and take control into your own hands. And then you’ve made the money, right? Like you’ve done that yourself. That’s why commercial real estate is so important. So it comes down to how you are going to add the value. And that takes education because people commoditize these the real estate investments of stock, and it’s just not true, right. So anyway, thought I would just throw that out there. And it seems like you agree with it also. But we could we could go on for, you know, hours and hours about this. But what we’re going to do is we’re going to transition over to our Rapid Round, which is the same five questions at the end of the show that we ask every one of our guests. So if you’re ready, we’re going to rapidly ask them to you All right, next couple of minutes. All right, number one, what book has had the biggest impact on you and why? And we ask that it not be Rich Dad, Poor Dad or the Bible, because we hear those responses all the time.

Chad Swinford 44:09
And those would be like two responses as well. And I’m not much of a reader, I will tell you that. But the one the one thing you know, I have I have gotten distracted with other business ventures that in my life and that has kind of brought me home to you know, focus on what you know and what you’re good at and just be the best at it.

Derek Clifford 44:33
Yeah, completely, completely agree. Love that one. Number two, if people wanted to emulate your success, what do you think is the first actionable thing that they could do to follow in your footsteps?

Chad Swinford 44:45
This is be intentional. Right? Know what you want? What is the end goal? Set your goals, set small goals to get there and not be overwhelmed by the process.

Derek Clifford 44:56
That’s great. I love it. And just real quick footnote on that. Um, would you recommend people do that by writing it down or using a journal? Or how would you getting an accountability partner? How would you recommend people do that?

Chad Swinford 45:08
I think all of those things are great, great, okay. For each one is everybody has their own ways that they learn and how they work best, right? What you need the most in your life. And you know, I may not need that, because I may be driven differently than someone else. And an accountability partner may work really well. But I do think that you need to put something if it’s something that you struggle with. And that’s something that path that you may not stay on. You put something some kind of control in your life. Right. That will help keep you on that path. Yeah, those Yeah, I think those particular ones that you’ve mentioned would be suitable.

Derek Clifford 45:49
Awesome. Cool. Couldn’t agree with you more there. Number three, what is one tool or process or hack in the last three to six months that you’ve used, that’s helped you save time and or effort. And that can be personal or business?

Chad Swinford 46:03
Yeah, so this is really boring. But I said, I’m really organized. And I just use the Google suite of tools with Google Drive, and sheets and Docs, and I am so organized. And when I, you know, one of the more time consuming things for me, one thing that I hate the most is refinances and kind of going through that process. Because they I mean, you know, depending on the underwriter, I mean, they’re asking for everything. But so I’ve set myself up, I’ve set myself up really nicely to be able to provide all of that at, you know, from my phone from wherever I’m at, and just in a few minutes, I can provide any particular document that they’re looking for. So for me, you know, that’s probably not some new fancy tool. Although I’m starting to use a sauna right now, which kind of will help organize me a little bit. But yeah, I think more than anything, that is the most impactful thing for me and my business.

Derek Clifford 47:04
Cool. Yeah, I can’t I can’t agree with you more there. Because yeah, I have a, I have a Google Drive folder that I have. That’s literally called lender qualifications. And I just send that over. Every time I get tax tax returns from my entities, I just pop it in there and put a copy in there and then just sent like, that way, it’s all up to date and you have to do the PFS, and yeah, I totally get it. So it is what it is. All right. Number four, if the people that you know had to describe you with one word, what do you think that word would be?

Chad Swinford 47:33
Trustworthy?

Derek Clifford 47:34
Yeah, I can see that. I like that. Very good. All right. And last question number five. What small thing do most people not know about you?

Chad Swinford 47:45
When I was a teenager, I was I was pretty certain I was gonna play for the Cubs. big baseball fan. played baseball all year long. And I was, you know, I wanted to be a professional baseball player up until my late teens. And so yeah, it’s not something I’m really taught. But that’s really cool. It’s pretty sure that I was gonna be the next Ryan Sandberg.

Derek Clifford 48:12
I’ve always I’ve always wondered, you know, like for Indianapolis like who, who? What, what baseball team that they root for? Is that the Reds or is it the is it the Cubs?

Chad Swinford 48:22
To the Reds, the colors of the reds, but mostly Cubs. And I think that probably is true Cubs. Cubs had a national reach because of their their cable network. Makes sense. In the 80s and 90s, they were on T. Everybody’s seen me across the country. Most of the day is during the summer.

Derek Clifford 48:42
Very interesting. Cool. Very, very nice. Well, hey, you know, Chad, thank you so much for coming on the show. This is a blast happening on. But before we go, why don’t you tell the listeners how they can reach out to you. Talk to you. Or maybe if you want to speak with them. I’m giving you the floor right now to say whatever you’d like to share with the audience.

Chad Swinford 49:00
Yeah, sure. Find me on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram as eight kids, dad. And yeah, I will be happy to to just discuss anybody that has an upcoming career in real estate, anybody that’s looking for a place to invest their money in Indianapolis and the surrounding areas, and just really enjoy talking and discussing the you know, upcoming careers and real estate in general.

Derek Clifford 49:32
Love it. You’re a man of my heart, Chad. I love it. And it’s really great. Can’t wait to meet you in person here in the next couple of weeks and months. It’d be great to be able to see it. But Chad, thanks so much for coming on the show. This has been awesome. Yeah.

Chad Swinford 49:44
Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely.

Derek Clifford 49:46
And for you listeners who have gone all the way through the podcast here and are with us right now at this point in time. Just want to thank you so much for listening. And please, wherever you’re listening or watching this podcast, please be sure to interact with us. Give us some comments. Let us know what you think. Thumbs up, subscribe, whatever you can do to interact with us through whatever platform you’re listening or watching this. We would really appreciate that because then it appeases the algorithm gods and as we appease those algorithm gods, we get exposure to more and more people like you and then we can bring on more impressive, really inspiring guests like Chad as well. So Chad once again, thank you for coming on the show. Dear listener, thank you as well. Have an awesome week. We are signing off. We’ll see you next time. Take care!